General oral testimony about the transfer

Horace Adam (19 March 2021)

The people that occupy that area was the Cree. The Cree, yeah the Cree. And they, and there’s a few Dene like the Ratfats, are the ones that were there. Because they had no choice . . . the treaties was signed and then the Dene people had their traplines there in the Park, at that time. They [Parks] told them they could move or they [could] become the Cree band. So most of them did became Cree Band just to keep their land, their traplines. That’s what happened.

There was a lot [of Dene residents in the Park] at that time. There was Dene. There was a lot people from Fort Chipewyan. The Dënesųłıné that was out there on the land. And, I can’t recall all their names because I didn’t really know lots of people at that time. They stayed [in the Park], they stayed and so they become Cree Band.

Leonard Flett (30 April 2021)

We were treated like—I don’t know what. Who are they to tell us to relocate from where my mom was born [at Birch River], move us to the reserve [at Jackfish]? I don’t know, it just pisses me off when I think about it. And, when I go to the National Park today in Fort Chip, I don’t go ask for their permission, I just go. And that’s our right. We’re entitled to it. I don’t think the government should tell us to move away or else become—this is the part that really pisses me off—they had the rights to make [ACFN] members become Mikisew members. That really pisses me off. I mean, who are they to decide that, right? I mean, we signed a Treaty agreement back in 1899. And they can just go in there and do whatever they wanted. It is not right.

Scott Flett (17 March 2021)

That’s really where they were, like House [Lake] on the Birch River area and stuff. That’s where there was kind of little settlements and stuff. That’s where lots of—I remember the Ratfat family, they were Dene before and then when the Dene people were forced out of the Park then they had to become a Cree Band member. There was about—I forget how many families there must have been. I know there is Vermillion, Simpson, Ratfats. I know there’s a couple more that didn’t switch over. And that whole area was like, they’d signed a treaty you know, like I said, Birch River, Gull River, south of Lake Claire also. The whole side of the south of Lake Athabasca and Lake Claire and stuff, that was all Dene territory. It’s all Dene. . . . They didn’t want to move, to get out of the Park. And I think the Simpsons and the Vermillions were in that area north of Peace side.

Fred (Jumbo) Fraser (12 March 2021)

What happened in the Park, I guess when they formed the Park [the expansion], south of the Peace, that’s when they [Chipewyan Band members] had a choice of switching from ACFN to Mikisew if they wanted to trap in the Park. And I know some ACFN members did switch over, they went to Mikisew so that they could continue to stay in the Park and trapping. So the Métis were also kicked out of the Park because, you know, it’s a brand Park, just freshly formed and the chief at the time for Mikisew said, no, the Métis do not leave, they stay in the Park.

As far as I know it’s the Parks [who were responsible for the membership transfer]. Like I said, because they gave them [Dene residents in the Park] a choice, you know, like saying, “you could change from ACFN to Mikisew if you want to stay in the Park.” You know, some did change and, like I said—Simpsons they had their trapline on the Peace River by west of Fort Chip. And they had a big house on the river, a two-storey building you know, and they had a very big family. Vermillions, they trapped up on the Peace River. They still own that trapline, one of the Simpsons still owns the traplines today. Not that anybody goes trapping. Vermillions, they have their traplines still up there.

Ray Ladouceur (18 March 2021)

Oh, it was mostly Dene [living in the Park], it was supposed to be all Dene, and the government when it came down here, most of them were people that was in Birch River, they [the government] called them Cree. Yeah, they called them Cree, but most of them belong to same Dene . . . But they call them Crees and they [the Dene residents in the Park] spoke Cree, so. They went under the name of Cree then. There’s Vermillions and all those people there, they were Dene people at one time. Yeah, they [the Park] went and just went ahead without, well, of course they won’t say anything, they wanted to do whatever they wanted to do.

At Birch River, people were mostly Dene, but then when the white man come in this part of the country, I guess there was a few Crees so they took that whole area, Birch River and the Peace River, all for the Cree. They [the white men] called them Cree ‘cause they spoke Cree too, and their family, now they’re all Cree. They don’t call them Dene.

My understanding is, when the white man came over and took over the Park, it was Dene at Birch River. You know that same Dene that, to our area where we settled down, eh, same [thing—it was] Dene. But they [government officials] called them [the Dene living in the Park] Crees. Of course, there was—they were mixed with Cree. They called them Cree so that’s where they got their name from, Cree. Most of them are Dene, you know. Yeah, that’s what happened . . . the white man. They [white people] didn’t know that [the Cree and Dene people were different] and because they [the Dene residents in the Park] spoke Cree, I guess, and [officials assumed] “oh, in the south they’re all Cree in Birch River,” that part of the country. That area they took for Crees. And so Dene was, you know, out of there.

Big John Marcel (18 March 2021)

Well, you know what it was—it was so many things that happened when Parks took over. And then, you know, I was told by the Elder people and my dad, when Park took over, most of our [ACFN] band members were all trapping in that area. Toward Birch River. And then, when things changed . . . all the band members that work there had to go back to our reserve. And they also—Fort McKay [Band] used to trap around that area, too.¹⁰ And then Parks told most of the people that I know were trapping there, they were trapping, and then parks says to them, “if you want to go back to the Wood Buffalo, okay, you have to change and go back to the Cree band.” So, most of these people that I know, just like the Simpsons and Vermillions, and there’s quite a few families, joined the Parks because they wanted to trap in that area.

Charlie Mercredi (n.d.)

Elder William Laviolette used to tell me lots of stories; like one day we were in Old Fort just the two of us, everybody else went to Fort Chip for supplies, and the old man said nobody here but us. I asked him what he meant, and he said one time there used to be lots of people, now not anymore; after WBNP we lost many of our people to MCFN.

Donalyn Mercredi (11 March 2021)

And that was their home, so they didn’t want to leave their home. So they have no other choice, I’m guessing that they had no other choice. Like I wouldn’t want to leave my home. So they probably just transferred to the Mikisew Band. Which I don’t think it’s fair. They were stripped of their Dene [identity]. They’re born Dené; however, they were stripped of it just over their homestead. And they had to transfer bands to another band. Which they really didn’t belong to in the first place.

Leslie Wiltzen (21 January 2021)

Leslie began his discussion of the membership transfer reading the 1946 treaty payroll list document, which lists the names of families and number of members [123] who were transferred from the Chipewyan Band to the Cree Band.

There’s a lot of names so I can tell you, roughly I’ll just give you . . . I’ll just read a few of the names off here.

We got Lucien Vermilion, it says two transferred to the Cree Band 170. Then we got Salman Sepp, two transferred. We have Cheezie, Marcel Cheezie, one transferred to Cree band. We have Jonas Nadary, one transferred to Cree band. We have Paul Shortman, two transferred to Cree band. We have Germain Ratfat. Isidore Shortman, four transferred. Joseph Fontain, four transferred. Napoleon Freezy, two transferred. John Volio, one transferred. Louisan Poitras, three transferred. Maragine Poitras, Valentine Piche, Lucien Cheezy, Salma Shortman, Alex Ratfat, Isidore Shortman, Peter Ratfat, Mary Ann, Pauline and Archie: fourteen. Joseph Poitras, William Simpson, Alexander Vermillion, Marjorie Magloire Vermillion, Philip Evans, Isidore Shortman, Moses Nadary, Eugene Poitras, Peter Ratfat, Joseph Bouchier, Ambrose Bouchier, Archie Simpson, Pierre Simpson, Willie Waquan, Francis Waquan, Leonard Leon Bouchier, Joseph Dene, Martin Tourangeau, Willie Waquan, Mary Rose Deraso, Fred Vague. You look at these guys, [they] were all ACFN members that were transferred over to Cree band.

And you know a lot of people unfortunately, it’s really sad because, when you look at it today, there’s a lot of youth both on the Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation and on the Mikisew Cree First Nation that really don’t know their history. There’s a lot of kids today that don’t realize—don’t know that history of what occurred in the Wood Buffalo National Park.

There’s no documentation that shows that our chiefs negotiated and allowed for that to happen, because they would never have done that. They would never, ever give their people up. So that was done without any consultation, without any negotiation. If there was negotiations or if there was consultations that took place it was obviously just amongst the federal government and the agents. It never occurred with the Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation. It was never okayed and allowed to happen based on any written documentation, or any oral history that I’ve heard of or ever seen.

. . . From my understanding, the only details I have on that come from my Uncle Pat [Marcel] and from oral history. And from what I was told, was basically the federal government didn’t want to have to deal with three people, three groups [two Nations in the Park and one outside the Park]. Right? So you have Mikisew there and then you have the ACFN that was asked to leave, and the majority took the option and left. And them that stayed, the federal government didn’t want to have to deal with it, with the Chipewyan Indians anymore. They felt, they managed to convince the chief, the main part when he left, the federal government felt that they didn’t want to have to deal with the other members. So they couldn’t get them to leave. So it would be dealing with three groups. So they did that [Indian Affairs made the membership transfer]. That’s why, that’s where someone made the decision that we just turn them into Cree band members. My Uncle Pat used to say it really, really more thorough and complete, but that’s kind of the oral history that I got out of it. It’s not, again, it’s not written anywhere. But that’s all that’s from my understanding, it was one of the main reasons there. And there might be more reasons that we don’t know or never will know . . . It’s funny when you read about all this. I mean, the federal government has a document—I’ve got a list. We know that these people were ACFN members. When we look at when the Treaty was signed, it showed the numbers of Mikisew members, and the members have drastically changed after that membership has changed. So we know there is a big transfer. It’s in the federal government’s archives. It’s recorded in history. But [there’s] nothing indicating what led up to that transfer and reasons that were made to transfer. It’s like a book where you’re reading a good story and then somebody rips out three pages and you never know what happens in those three pages. And that’s what happened with the federal government. Why wasn’t that more thoroughly documented, where we see that?