Dimitri Giannoulis

Graduate Student, Master of Planning, School of Architecture, Planning and Landscape, University of Calgary, Canada and President, School of Architecture, Planning and Landscape Student Association, University of Calgary, Canada

Interviewed October 2020 by Martina MacFarlane

MM Tell us just a little bit about your background and what you do at SAPL (School of Architecture, Planning and Landscape).

DG I am originally from Calgary and I have a background in geography from the University of Victoria. I’m now in the second year of the urban planning program at the University of Calgary and I’m also the current president of the SAPL Student Association.

MM You’ve stepped into your Student Association President position during all of this, and I imagine that you’ve seen a lot of changes. How have things changed in general, and how has your learning changed for the 2020 year?

DG When I first became president in May, I sort of figured that everything would be back to normal by August. But by July, it was clear that the Fall would be virtual, and so there was a lot of work to try to prepare for that. For me individually as a student, I was in a weird position to transition online because I was doing most of my work from the school computers because I found it was better for the software than using my laptop. I think I was at school more than your average student, so it’s been a real change not going into the school as much this year.

MM You experienced a big change completely shifting where you do all of your work. Have you been using the lab computers remotely at all?

DG No, I haven’t. The pandemic year sort of forced me to accept that I had to use this heavy software on my Mac laptop, and I found out it wasn’t even that bad. It gave me confidence, whereas before, I had the impression that it just wouldn’t work. I haven’t had to use AutoCAD or any GIS on my laptop; these would be the only barriers. In particular the GIS is a bit more difficult, but I haven’t really had to use the server because this term the assignments are focused more on Adobe Creative Cloud.

MM What do you think are some of the opportunities created by this shift to digital education?

DG One of the opportunities is affordability for those who would normally have to move to attend school. However, the degree of economic opportunity will play out differently for everybody, depending on the situation. In terms of the actual learning, I think it’s just a different format. If we think about just going from one format to another, how well it works for you sort of depends on your personality. The switch to digital education does affect each person differently depending on how you learn.

MM How has the switch to online learning been for you personally?

DG I don’t like it, but it’s been fine. I’m fortunate because I’ve been living with my partner instead of alone and we have friends in town that we can still hang out one-on-one with, so that makes it easier to not have in-person socialization through school. Also, I’m lucky to have the benefit of knowing all my peers in my cohort already from last year when we were at school together in person.

MM I would imagine it’s a whole different challenge for students in their first year who have only met their classmates over Zoom.

DG I completely agree. The SAPL Students’ Association put out a survey to students asking how their experience has been, and after reading through the submissions I know that many first years are having a hard time. They don’t have those social connections established and it can be awkward to meet people over Zoom.

MM Are there other challenges that you’re seeing with remote learning?

DG I definitely wonder if students are now learning less. Sometimes it can be hard to pay attention. For the school, it’s no easy task to change the format of class schedules, but some of those longer class times that would work previously in person are simply just too long in this online format. Although within that challenge, there is also the opportunity to be able to just turn off your camera, get up and do a quick stretch or whatever you need to do to get comfortable. I am definitely a fidgety person at the best of times, so it’s been nice for this reason. These are things you can’t really do in class. Another challenge is that it’s now so easy to pop open a new tab and get distracted. It’s not that I’m scrolling through Facebook and tuning out what’s happening on Zoom, but there is that sense of distraction that’s always present when you’re alone at home. In a sense, it’s harder to focus and really get into it.

MM Absolutely. There are all these external sources that you can quickly dive into, and before you know it your brain is somewhere else. So, speaking of all the things you can get into online, what is your most-used tool for remote learning?

DG By far, it’s been Zoom in the format of single-group lectures and questions. I would say we spend about half of the time on Zoom with presentation material up, and half the time we’re just chatting. I’ve also used Miro in one of my courses. It’s a cool tool but there are definitely limitations with it too. Between the instructor and all the students there are so many files being put on Miro and this can really slow things down. But overall, Miro and Zoom are the tools I use the most.

MM Do you have a favourite resource that you look to for tips or inspiration?

DG Not in particular. I’m not actively seeking out resources, but I’ll use some that I happen to come across. For example, having used Miro I know that there are some Miro games. The SAPL Students’ Association might use these for one of our upcoming online social nights.

MM Dimitri, we’ve come to the last question, and it’s a big one. What do you think or hope that higher education might look like in the next ten years?

DG I’ve thought about this before, and my understanding for universities is that because they have their in-person infrastructure already in place there are all these new pressures on the business side of things. I think that the university wants to get back in-person. I can’t imagine them choosing to say okay, we’re selling our buildings, or leaving them vacant.

The transition back will be tough too. I think that if universities take on the hybrid model of both in-person and online education it will be really challenging. It could be that we have, say, ninety percent of students back in class and the rest are still remote learning. I don’t really see that being very viable, or even desirable. Overall, though, assuming that we develop a vaccine or something like that, at some point the pandemic will end. I imagine then that things will go mostly back to normal. I think that it’s going to feel like a big shift. I’m not saying that this is a vacation, but I imagine that when the school says, okay, we are going back to in-person classes, it’ll sort of be like summer vacation is over. We’ve all developed our little habits of working at home and I think it’s likely that students will feel a sense of oh, wow, how would I ever go back to school? But then on the first day, we’ll say okay, I guess I better get up and go. Hopefully before we know it, we’ll be adjusted right back to our in-class habits again.

I think that when we do get back, those who are in-person aren’t going to want to have that digital component. I think it’s a consensus amongst students that once classes are back at school, they just want to do things the way they were before. That’s been my experience in terms of my involvement with the SAPL Student Association. For us, the virtual realm has been tricky. Students already have so much screen time and we have to decide if planning social activities online and stretching the amount of screen time even further is something we can do.

MM Are you finding that people are responsive to those sorts of digital sessions?

DG The responsiveness has been less than in the past when these events happened in person. There are students in their first year who may not know any of their peers, and those who are in different time zones. These are monumental challenges for student involvement. Going forward there will be the question of how to advocate for these opportunities if they’re in person, because hosting them offline will make them exclusive to only those who are able to attend in person. It’s a bit of a Catch-22.

MM Thank you for sharing your experiences with us, Dimitri. Is there anything else that you’d like to add?

DG I’ve heard from students that it’s been difficult to learn all the new software for our programs online. Nobody is near you to help you troubleshoot and it’s harder for the instructors to gauge where everybody is at. Difficulties with teaching and learning software over Zoom was a significant finding to come out of the survey we sent. This is definitely something we need to keep in mind as we progress through the changes to online education.

Reflection

I’m writing this reflection on 3 July 2021, an interesting moment to reflect on my interview nine months ago. In Alberta, we have just entered Stage 3 of our re-opening, removing nearly all restrictions. In my interview, I only hoped that a vaccine would be developed, but now I have had both doses. However, at the time of this reflection, COVID-19 continues: people are still dying from the disease in Alberta, and globally, it seems like wealthier nations have been able to force themselves to the front of the line for vaccinations. But in many ways, in Calgary, life seems almost normal for the first time.

I have graduated and a new president is leading the SAPL Student Association. I am working full-time now, and I have been transitioning from working at home to working in the office. I still use Zoom and Miro regularly, and I appreciate having virtual tools as an option when needed. I am finding working from home different than online schooling, particularly when it comes to feeling restless or unable to concentrate. I find concentrating easier while working remotely because it’s more involved than just listening to content, and because I know I’m on the clock, that gives me a sense of obligation that prevents me from getting distracted. Another contrast is that remote schooling has the added difficulty of being all the time: you have no shift or end time, which I found was taxing.

At this point, universities and workplaces seem to be offering in-person and digital options for their employees/ students. For some people’s personalities or life circumstances, digital methods are simply preferred and may offer personal benefits. However, I wonder what the effect would be of dividing workplaces and courses into those two groups, whereby the two never meet. I worry that it would negatively impact collaboration.

I wish that I had been able to return to in-person learning before graduating, and I am excited for those who will be able to. I hope that the students who began their studies digitally will be able to meet in person and feel a stronger sense of connectedness to their peers. For me, the physical spaces of a school are part of the experience and those physical spaces for education are important for making the education experience memorable, tangible, and meaningful; you get nostalgic about school walking by your former school because it’s a space filled with memories for you. Five years from now, I doubt it will be the same form of nostalgia when I remember working from my laptop in my apartment; that spatial disconnect is significant, and I am excited for the opportunity to reconnect with spaces as much as with people. Even if the pandemic is not over, the end finally feels in sight.

About 

Dimitri Giannoulis is a proud SAPL alumnus, having completed his master of planning degree at the University of Calgary, Canada in 2021. During his final year, Dimitri was the president of the SAPL Student Association. His most recent professional endeavours have involved bike share operations, main street activation, and he is now a planning and development officer with Foothills County.